A Song of Ice and Fire

[Chris]

SPOILER: Click to show

A porn star? She's 15. -______-

Well see with me I read through the series so fast that I missed some of the details like stopping to think about how Ned would even have to time to make a bastard during the war.

Lol yeah Sandor is one of my favorites. Along with Jon, Arya, Sansa, Tyrion, Jaime, Brienne, Davos, Dany and Barristan.

Anyways ... so what are your thoughts on Sandor and Brienne? Are they alive? Are Varys and Illyrio and the Martells Targaryen royalists who plotted to tear Westeros apart so that they wouldn't be able to resist Dany? What's Littlefinger's master plan? Are the children of the forest still around? Are the Others just chilling? (no pun intended) Lol ... you've had a lot more time to look around and think than I have.

[Chris]

SPOILER: Click to show

Yeah, you never know with Martin. I really hope she's alive, though.

Oh I get your point, but I have to disagree there. People in Matin's world are just like people in ours - sure, there are a lot of people out only for themselves, but then there's people like Barristan and Ned and Brienne who practically live to help other people.

Varys has Targaryen blood? What did I miss? I don't remember reading that anywhere. The only evidence for that I see is that his name endes with "rys" like Aerys and Daenarys. Oh snap.

Littlefinger can keep his "little finger" in his pants, or else I'd love to see Sandor Clegane chop it off. He's a coniving, evil, self-serving little sh** who's worth less than the scum I scrap off my shoe. Lmao! But it's true. He's underhanded and deceitful and he treats people like pawns to be used and discarded. I can't wait til he gets what's coming for him. As for his master plan, Idk what it could be. Either something crazy or something simple. Either way, I think his lust for Sansa will be his downfall.

Yeah it'd be nice if it was Benjen. Too many Starks have died for my liking. As for the Others, I've always been under the impression that they answer only to themselves. It's just that the entire time I've read this series I think about how the Others are the real threat through it all. It's scary to think of something that might be greater than they that they answer too.

Also, given that the last two years of the series have been spent only in autumn, it's probable that the series will end during winter. Maybe there will be an epilogue during spring. Or maybe the Others will win. 0_0 Lol.

And Melisandre needs to stop being retarded. If Azzar Azshai or whatever his name is is reborn, it's Dany, not Stannis. Dany already birthed dragons out of stone and went unburnt through fire, all back in the first book. What I wonder is, will she finally fall in love with someone, only to have to kill them to make Lightbringer? How ironic would that be. And what if that person is Jon? Or Jaime? No doubt Martin will make his (whoever he is) death hurt us as much as it does Dany.
And how will there be closure? The last time Azzar whathisface and the First Men and the children of the forest were able to drive the Others back, but they didn't destroy them, so they can come again. And they're going to. So this time, if the series can have a definitive ending, they have to be destroyed completely. And how can that happen? Will they have to be followed back to the Lands of Always Winter?

Have I asked you enough questions for now?

[Chris]

SPOILER: Click to show

Haha! You read it on some forum I bet. I've been reading some of those, too. But if nothing else I'm convinced he and Illyrio have been planning to weaken the houses so that they couldn't resist Dany's return. Too bad they don't know about the Others. Idiots. I can't wait to see the reaction all these master plotters (Petyr, Varys, etc.) have when the Others come in and start kicking a**.

You know what would be the most badass trio in the history of badassery? ( ) Brienne, Sandor and Brynden all going after Sansa. ;D Poor Littlefinger. I almost feel bad for him ... not really.

Oi. I am a very unwilling shipper of S/S. He's in his late 20's and he's creepy, but he has gotten a lot better. And believe it or not he's the best match for Sansa in the series (and how freaking sad/weirdly perfect is that?) There are three things I've noticed. One, the only time Sandor has ever lied in the series was to protect Sansa from Joffrey when he agreed that it was bad luck to kill someone on your name day. Two, that Loras, Sansa's perfect knight, has been horribly burned, and her would-be-betrothed, Willas, is a cripple in the legs. Sandor as of AFFC is both of these things. Also, Sansa is the only Stark whose lost her direwolf and Robert had said to Ned, "Get her a dog." Oh the irony.

Omg! I feel so retarded. I never knew that the House of Black in White is a headquarters for the Faceless Men. -_________- How stupid can I get? Totally missed it. Arya is really starting to freak me out with her killing. She's 11! Eeh. I still really like the idea of her and Gendy, because they're like Robert/Lyanna, take 2. Arya had Stark features and is a tomboy just like Lyanna was and Gendry is a lot like I'd imagine Robert was at his age (I'm pretty sure that Lyanna's death was what caused Robert to whore and drink himself into oblivion. It's really sad.).
Among my other ships are:
Bran/Meera (oh come on. It would be adorable. )
Cersei/Ser Illyn Payne's sword
Roose Bolton/Needle ("Catelyn Stark sends her regards, b*tch")
Old Walder Frey/The Stranger
Jon/His vows (Although I have a feeling we will see some Jon + Melisandre = SHADOW BABEHS. He does have a thing for redheads ...)
Littlefinger/UnCat (or as an alternative, Gregorstein)
Jaime/Redemption
Euron/The Drowned God
Edmure/Roslin (Hopefully their marriage isn't anything like their wedding)
Tyrion/Tysha (He really deserves her)
Ser Jorah, Brienne, and Dany also deserve someone.

And that's all I can think of. Lol.

And really, Martin, is it too much to ask for some romance? FYI, lots of sex doesn't count. -___-

Oh, they'll definitely have to unite under Dany. Can't wait to see Stannis's and Melisandre's reactions. The North is pretty much screwed but the Tyrells and Martells are still strong (how ironic that they'll have to fight side by side) And seriously, Others vs. Unsullied would be awesomeness.

Dany has lost a lot, but this is Martin we're talking about. The Starks were basically the only loving/normal noble family in Westeros and Martin ruined their lands, killed the oldest of their children and left the rest orphaned.

Do you mean Dany's chapter? Yes, I've read it.

A few random things I've realized:
By ADWD, Daenerys is my age. WTF.
Dany/Jaime most likely won't happen because, well, he did kill her father.
Aeron Damphair = Damp Hair. I've been pronouncing it "damfair". -__-'
And there were others but I don't remember them. Lol. Counter.

Sept 2, 2008 15:19:25 GMT -5 Dr. Horrible said:

SPOILER: Click to show

Aww dude... I didn't think about her having to kill the one she loved...
I mean, in theory, she already did that. She killed her unborn child. What could a mother love more than her children?
And then she had to kill Khaal Drogo too...
So she's kind of killed off... everyone that she loves. Which is why she doesn't love anymore, because its too dangerous.
So that's why she can't kill her lover--she has to relearn everything! No death I say, no death.
I think she's lost enough to warrant a lightbringer of its own.

Well according to www.towerofthehand.com/essays/chrisholden/azor_ahai_reborn.html she might already have it:
"Far and away the most likely candidate for Azor Ahai, Dany fits all the requirements. She awoke the dragons out of her petrified stone eggs, on the very night she spotted the comet for the first time. (AGOT p804). That night, there was smoke from the funeral pyre and salt from Dany's tears. And she was 'reborn' in the sense that she emerged from the fire a stronger person--a leader whom the Dothraki would follow.

But how does Dany's story match up with Salladhor's? Well, one suggestion has been that her dragons are actually Lightbringer, because they can produce fire. This makes a great amount of sense. Like Azor Ahai, Dany tried three times to make her weapon--once while putting them on a brazier (AGOT p593), once while coming out of her fevered nightmares (AGOT p753-754), and finally succeeding on the third try at Drogo's pyre. Also, like Azor Ahai, Dany sacrificed her spouse to make her weapon, and drew the weapon out of a fire.

Other people merely think that Lightbringer is still a sword, and perhaps Dany will find it elsewhere, maybne in Asshai or far east.

But the fact remains that, of all the candidates, Dany is the only one who has woken dragons out of stone. Unless another character is going to accomplish the same thing, Dany seems like a safe bet to be Azor Ahai reborn."

[Chris]

SPOILER: Click to show

Liann, I'm sorry I haven't been able to respond in so long. School's been really ugh. -__- I hope you and your family are all alright.

I don't think the two other dragon riders necessarily have to be Dany's husbands. Tyrion, Quetyn and Victarion are all on a crashing course with her but Tyrion at least wouldn't be interested in her. I don't want to see much of Victarion thought ... the Iron Men are BORING. D:
And no, I don't think she'll have to kill Drogon. But what if the Others do and make him an evil undead dragon of doom?

Lol. Your fangirlness over SanSan is extreme. I mostly got over age difference after Drogo and Dany actually fell in love (the only good twist in the series) but it still kind of bugs me. What can I say. Lol.
I didn't even think of the whole Rhaeger thing. Come to think of it, Gendry is kind of like him in some ways.
And I’m not sure about Rhaeger/Lyanna. On one hand, Lyanna wasn’t the kind of girl you could just abduct. But then again, would she let herself be whisked away without letting her family know? Look how that ended.

What got you thinking that Ser Barristan would know? Jaime was just as much a member of the Kingsguard as he was, and Jaime doesn’t know a thing about it. If Barristan knew he would have gone to Robb and told him about Jon so that the North would declare for the Targaryens. Barristan doesn’t know.

Remember that the only people who left the Tower of Joy alive were Ned and Howland Reed. Ned is dead, but Howland is not. If we’re going to find out about Jon’s parentage, it will be from him.

The idea of Dany/Jon is kind of cheesy to me, but I guess Martin could pull it off. About the whole Song of Fire and Ice, I was sure that was Dany (fire) vs. the Others (ice). Another thing about R/L – we’re told a LOT of times in the series that Elia’s health was bad. Do you think Rhaeger chose to go off with Lyanna to have the third head of the dragon? Elia had already given him two children but a third birth might have killed her.

[joanna08]

wow liann.... haven't heard about this books... but now that you mention it, you gave me another reason to buy them! YAY! i love books... thanks for recommending! i'll get back to you once im finished!

[Chris]

Oct 20, 2008 4:42:13 GMT -5 joanna08 said:

wow liann.... haven't heard about this books... but now that you mention it, you gave me another reason to buy them! YAY! i love books... thanks for recommending! i'll get back to you once im finished!

They're AMAZING. You'll love them. Lol.

Liann - I'll get back to you ... eventually. Muhahahaha.

[Chris]

Have I made you suffer enough? Alright, let’s get back on track now.

SPOILER: Click to show

Good point, especially about Tyrion--he def wouldn't be interested in her. Somehow I forgot that he was looking for her too. Its been so long since I've read them, and I'm so frustrated at the lack of book five that I just don't want to get my hopes up in reading them again.

Yeah, Victarion's a bit... boring is a good word. He's more interesting than his brother. The only Iron Islander that's a badass is Asha. SHE should be a dragon head.

Yeah me too. :/

UGH. I don’t like the ironborn at all. Lol. Asha could fall off the face of the earth for all I care. Sorry.

The real question is, I think, what defines a dragon head? A co-ruler? An advisor? A lover? Is it a concept of balance, or a concept of control? Will the heads literally be separated or figuratively (aka, split in power or split in land AND power, like three kingdoms vx one.)

I DON’T KNOW!!

And I do not even want to think about an Evil Dragon of Doom.
Unless Bran gets to ride it around kicking a**, after he's been trained by Cold Hands--we haven't even really talked about that yet--what is Bran's mission? Is he going to fight the Others and regain the North?

I’m really interested in Bran, seeing as my favoritism goes by eldest in the Stark family. Ned was my favorite, then Robb, and now Bran. : )) Lol. Of course I love Jon and the others.
Whatever Bran’s mission is, you know it’s gonna be super-important somehow. I hope they meet Stonesnake – do you remember that guy? He was badass but he disappeared. Oh, and Jojen is definitely going to kick the bucket sometime soon. I can see it now: He’s all, “Sister, today is the day I die” *iz dead* and Meera’s all “NOOO!” and yeah. It’s gonna happen.

I don't think Rhaeger swept her away, per say--I think she would have chosen to leave of her own fruition. Maybe she knew she was pregnant, and wanted to tell Rhaeger. Or, maybe, if she knew she was preggars, she wanted to leave home to spare them the dishonor. She could, in theory, give birth in private, give the child to someone, and no one would know the wiser. Rhaeger would have seen to that.

If she and Rhaeger were together, it was because they were in love. And, as most love stories in ASoIaF go, it ended tragically.



Maybe its not so much that Barristan KNOWS, but he has knowledge that was cause Dany (or someone) to question it. I think he may just have a piece of the puzzle.
And ... Howland Reed? *has totally blanked on him.* I need to re-read them...

I have a feeling we’ll know about Rhaegar soon enough. From Howland Reed that is. Not Barristan. GOOGLE HIM! Lol.

Actually, Dany/Jon doesn't bother me, simply because I know if Martin did it, he would make it BADASS. And I'm having a hard time finding someone for Dany that I like her with (besides Jamie.) I don't want her to end up with Random Character A, who Martin drags in Mary Sue/John Doe style to fix her up with. THAT'S when I might be inclined to vomit.
But I think that the whole ASoIaF business will tie itself up into smaller story-lines--characters will eventually come together. Dany and Jon, therefore, not implausible, and they would be a badass power couple.

Well so far I’ve seen that Martin can pull of just about anything – except a love story. We’ll see.

As for R/L, gotta second what I said before--I don't think R loves Ellia. She was weak, and she gave him weak children. Not to mention her had that whole destiny thing in mind. I think he saw Lyanna, knew she was strong, and fell in love with her because of it.
Maybe its a bit sweeter than that, but I have a hard time thinking of the Royalty in this story in love with their assigned marriage partners. (And living long enough to tell about it.)
Which is why Dany should break that.

It’s arguable - Ned and Cat, Twyin and Joanna, Edmund and Roslin, and Dany and Drogo were all arranged marriages between nobility and they all love each other … though Edmund and Roslin are the only ones not parted by death and they’re in a pretty crappy situation. But we don’t know – we’ll just have to wait for Mr. Reed to show his lazy self.